Re: R6 gearbox problems - 2nd gear slips

I had the exact same problem.
It happened to my '99 at 16,000K's. My bike was always maintained, semi-synth Motul every 3000K's on the dot.

I ended up getting a new motor since it was cheaper than taking the motor apart.

I did some research and found 3 other local R6's with the EXACT same problem, all 2nd gear and also a couple of threads on www.sportbikes.net about similar things. Pretty disappointing that Yamaha isn't servicing yours under warranty - my local mechanic was really pushing Yamaha to cover some of my costs, but my bike was way out of warranty unlike yours.

 

Re: R6 gearbox problems - 2nd gear slips

I'm going thru the same shit right now.
Is it really cheaper to get a new damn motor put in???
I mean, its just the dogs, how much can it cost???

 

Re: R6 gearbox problems - 2nd gear slips

I have been quoted about $1500 AU to have it fixed. The cost is mostly labour as the motor has to be dropped. Trouble is, there is every chance it will come back again in another 20,000 clicks.! - Yamaha have not changed the design since the original 99 design. Don't know what the cost of a new motor is, but i would have thought it would be a lot more than that.

I have done a little research with the Australian department of Fair Trading, and they have someguidelines about this sort of thing and warranty. Basically, All manufacturers have an 'implied' warranty - aside from their own manufacturer's written warranty. It says they are responible for any unreasonable failure, be it due to bad parts, or bad design. It is hard to define exactly what is reasonable, but i know that a gearbox wearing out at 20,000k's is NOT reasonable.

Whilst Yamaha have successfully 'eluded' their responsibility to date, I beleive they have a moral responibility to fix their mistake, even if it is outside of warranty. Its just unfortunate that this defect only shows up (typically) just after their warranty period expires.

What can we do?

Well, I have talked to Yamaha's national warranty manager - and guess what - they ain't gunna fix it. They did offer a 20% discount on the part only. That is an insult.

Legal options...
I am going down this avenue now. I would rather spend $1500 on legal fees than fix yamahas problem at my cost.
I am considering a class action against Yamaha if there are enough people out there in a similar boat. I would want compensation for those people who have already had this repair done at their own expense, and I would expect Yamaha to fix any current or future gearbox failures, at their expense, or issue a recall and fix it properly.

Any support / interest?

 

Re: R6 gearbox problems - 2nd gear slips

Just to clarify, I didn't replace my old motor with a brand new one. I got one with 1800Km's from one of the many written off R6's.. Cost was $1200Cdn - incl. labour.. that was quite a bit less than any quote I got for the tranny work.

 

same problem here...

same problem here, only my R6 is a 2001 with 6049 miles (close to 10k km) on it. I'm writing Yamaha a letter reguarding this problem as well as their VERY BIG problem with customer service. This repair is costing me $1250....I really don't like being talked to like I'm 2 yrs old while being told I HAVE TO pay all this money for a bike I bought 8 months ago.

Everyone with this problem please write Yamaha a formal complaint about this problem and maybe we can get them to announce a recall. Mentioning they will be loosing your business for good will definately get their attention.

 

Re: same problem here...

Writing a letter is a good idea, but I don't think they will do much about it unless they get swamped. I have gone to the national manager , and he said they have sought legal advice and are comfortable with their position, so any soft approach won't work unless it has large numbers behind it.

I need to know how many people have this problem so that I can decide on the most appropiate action.

I like the R6 a lot, but there is no way i could ever buy a Yamaha again. I just can't afford to be left in a position like this... where I have to replace the gearbox every 15,000k's. I have 3 friends who bought R6's after they saw mine, they are still quite new, but now I have to tell them to sell it before it packs it in.

I see a legal action as our only avenue, and I think this could be a really big issue for Yamaha, we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg now.

other options:
1. A petition.
2. Approach the media - 60 minutes type show.
3. Class Action.
4. Do nothing and wait till all R6's eventually succumb.
5. Buy a Honda (nice engineering but not the looks of the R6).
6. Other suggestions?

 

Yamaha Warranty

I've seen this topic come up more times than I can count. Some lucky ones have been able to get their dealers to repair their bikes under their factory or extended warranties. I would think that if they authorize a few bikes to be repaired, they should authorize them all. They shouldn't be able to pick and choose whose bike they will cover under warranty.

Someone should make a sticky post at the top of the page similar to the one we had for the '02 clip on problems. Everyone who has either had to repair their R6's or who have had theirs repaired under warranty should post the specifics about their situation and how it was resolved. We should post on SBN as well. Maybe if we get enough people together and possibly get a notarized letter from each of them, we will have some serious ammo to use when we go to battle with our local dealerships and Yamaha's warranty dept. themselves.

I agree the only way to make any headway on this issue is to have a lot of hard evidence and a no bull$shit attitude. I would be more than happy to help with this, let me know if this sounds good to anyone.

-Ariah

 

Yamaha Warranty

I just did some searching and here are the screen names of all the members I could find who have had the same poblem:

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> CtryBoyInMT
draughtr6
yam99blue
Rsicx
mullerr666
Hpower281
yzfman
Duffster
R6 on one
92GTstang
HDs99
ChiTownR6
r6HeavenTNT
Jdubb431
prv8pilot
idroppedit
dtorok84
Eric01
R roku
baw02141
RuiTrigo
Greg2k1R6
Wheelie Monster
r6danger
drspeedmore
r6danger
Jon AKA Spike<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

I'm sure there are many more. We should really post a sticky for this.

 

Re: Yamaha Warranty

good work - and thanks for your help - I need it!
I think you are right, there are lots more out there...
OK, so the sticky things sounds interesting, what is it? and how do we create one?

 

Yamaha Warranty

I will post in the Admin's suggestion forum that we would like a stiky made. If you look at the top of this page, you will see a few posts that remain at the top of the page no matter how old they get.

 

R6 2nd gear slippage problems - warranty issues

Guess what I'm another R6 owner with the same problems
with 2nd. I thought my rear wheel was lose the first time I felt it slip out. Then I thought it was my cdi but then the 3rd time or the 4th was when I noticed it was only happening in 2nd gear. I then phone yamaha about this problem and was unable to speak with someone in person
but was able to leave a message in regards to my problem and to return my call at there earliest convenience. I waited about 4 day then I took it in to a local shop, not my dealer but one that I have been to before. They looked at the bike, just looked took my info
on the bike and said they call me back to see if they would cover the work under warrantee. In mean time I desided to take the bike down to a friends friend shop. The guy is one of the top tech's Cycle Improvments
He takes the bike for a ride & come back with the news that the dog forks a couple of washers some other stuff had to be replace. At this point I thought, this really makes no sence I've never had any problems with any yamaha's I've owned, My RD the FZ my other R6 never had to do anything, but change the oils and regular maintenance. Now yamaha has not returned my call or the dealer at this point and steams coming out of my ears.
So now I'm in the mood to call yamaha again & again to my discovery, an answering service. I leave another message in regards to my problem, not letting them know I was upset but to call me in regard to my problem.
This time I figured they call me back in 24 hrs. or they should anyways. I waited 2 days and no call , well now my getting hot under the colar, so I take my bike back to the dealer I bought it from & tell him the problem. Mat
the tech at A&W takes my bike for a ride and comes back
to tell me the same thing as Cycle Improvments had told me, the trany problem with 2nd. gear. He said it should be covered under warrantee & he would call yamaha to
have it authorized & would call me when he had done so.
I waited another 2 days with no replies, I then dropped
back in to see Mat about my bike & he said that I was not going to like to answer that has for me that yamaha
won't cover this problem & thats because I abused my bike. Well that was the straw that broke the camels back. Now I know there others with the same problem
and would like to ask If anyone would like to share the cost in taking this farther please contact me. I sure we can win this battle if we all work together.

Thanks

nAiLed

 

Re: R6 2nd gear slippage problems - warranty issues

Okay guys, this is the first step in getting something done about this problem. The goal is to <!--EZCODE BOLD START--> (1) Get Yamaha to acknowledge there is a problem with the design/manufacturing process of the R6 transmission. (2) Give R6 owners the means to get their bikes covered under their Factory or Y.E.S. warranties.<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

To do this we need everyone who has had problems to post them here. The more people we have, the better our chances are for success. I plan to keep a running tally of all the people's screen names who post their problems.

So far, this is who we have:

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> CtryBoyInMT
draughtr6
yam99blue
Rsicx
mullerr666
Hpower281
yzfman
Duffster
R6 on one
92GTstang
HDs99
ChiTownR6
r6HeavenTNT
Jdubb431
prv8pilot
idroppedit
dtorok84
Eric01
R roku
baw02141
RuiTrigo
Greg2k1R6
Wheelie Monster
drspeedmore
r6danger
Jon AKA Spike
nailed
Suomy
mggspeed
Eric01
tricksix
rustyph
<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


I will try to contact via e-mail everyone on the list with a .pdf form they can fill out and send back to me. If we can get everyone to have their forms notarized and sent to me, I will put up a web page to host them. From there people can download and print out all the forms and have them with them when they go to their dealerships for warranty repairs. I will also be in contact with Yamaha's Factory Warranty Dept., and I will forward the forms to them as well in the hopes we can get a written acknowledgement of the problem.

Feel free to contact me at <!--EZCODE BOLD START--> ariahgreen@msn.com<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

*list updated*

 

tranny

I lowsided my motorcycle at 2,000 miles and twisted up the shifter. At 7,000 miles my second gear started to go. Problem was is that when I lowsided it jammed the shifter and bent the shift fork. Rough shifting between first and second not only can bend the shift fork but it wears off the gear dogs. Now the R6 has a very "wide ratio" transmission because of its high redline @ 15,500 revs. This is why "other yamaha's" don't experience the problem as bad is because the gap between first and second gear isn't as violent. If you know how to shift well and don't clutch up wheelies your tranny should last well over 20,000 miles as mine did after it was fixed. I rode it until 25,000 miles (some racing too) and then sold it to another racer and last time I checked the tranny was still going strong.

GSXR's have had this same problem but there was actually a serious problem in 2000 with many of the GSXR's comming off the line with miss-assembled transmissions. I forget the specifics.

There's nothing wrong with the Yamaha. 600 transmissions are not necissiarly weaker, they just have to take higher loads from the wide/harsh gap from first to second. This is why the 1000's and 600's with lower redlines shift smoother. Yamaha did a great job.... To put up with my abuse for nearly 20,000 miles after my first tranny rebuild and then go on to someone else thats pretty damn good.

Those who have trannys going in 12,000 miles must be either missing shifts from first to second, clutching up wheelies or lowsided on the left side.... any inputs from those with problems???

 

Re: tranny

An interesting response. That is pretty much what my mechanic said, and it sounds technically plausible.
He also said sometimes a lazy gear change, where you might only half engage the gear, and have it pop out on you, would cause some rounding of the dogs, and once rounded....its just a matter of time.

Having said all that, I have NOT done any of the above. Not even once. I change gears cleanly and always use the clutch properly, So there has gotta be some other reason...
I have had other powerful high revving bikes, also with large 1st - 2nd gear ratios, but no gearbox issues - my last, a CBR with 70,000k's and a perfect gearbox.

The only thing i could suggest that might bring on this condition, was the previous well known defect that Yamaha fixed under warranty. It was to do with the detent spring (i think thats what it was called), that made it jump out of gear, and you had trouble getting it back in. They said that was unrelated to our current issue, but if it was popping out of gear, surely that could have caused the initial critical rounding of the dogs. The mechanic even said "hey, once the dogs start to round......"

So, my new theory,
Folks who have experienced the first spring failure and ridden long enough to round the dogs (not long), are now subject to this premature aging of the dog. It looks like abuse, cause thats what it got - only not from us. Perhaps Yamaha should have replaced the gears when they replaced their spring...

So how many of us 'tranny abusing premature dog wearers' have suffered also the fate of the broken spring thing?

If there is a correlation, we have a case to put to Yamaha.

 

Re: tranny

damn i havee no IDEA wut u guys are talking about, but you guys are scarein the SHIT outt me ;O

 

R6 2nd gear slippage problems - warranty issues

My shift Detent spring also broke, and right before it did, My 99 R6 with over 16,000k on it, started to slip in 2nd gear, I thought it was clutch slipping, but it checked out OK, after replacing the the broken spring the Bike seemed to be ok, without any 2nd gear slippage, but I do notice in other gears ,4TH, 5TH When accelerating in the High RPMs(redline). I been more cautious about the problem, and have changed my riding style to compensate for the problem but it still happens just a lil, less.

 

Re: R6 2nd gear slippage problems - warranty issues

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> Suomy<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, please send me an e-mail address where you can be reached.

Thanks, Ariah <!--EZCODE BOLD START--> ariahgreen@msn.com<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

 

second slipping

Im glad I read this. I have the same problem. I just though my clutch was worn. My R6 has around 18000 miles on it. Send me that email so we can definitely do something about this. Yamaha is great, but this is something that they need to take care of. It seems that everyone with more than 5000 or 10000 miles is having this problem. Ive noticed it a little since around 15K. Ill keep reading this post and see what we can do.

 

sorry

sorry about that. My email is mggspeed@hotmail.com

 

Re: sorry

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> mggspeed<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, I added your name to the list. I'll send you an email as well.

-Ariah

 

ZZR1100 had this as well... Not much to do

Hi All.. Just poking my nose in here. I have an older Kawasaki ZZR1100. The C1&C2 Models of the ZZR had this problem as well. 2nd gear failure at around 19K Miles. Kawssaki replaced the gear in the D models with one that was slightly undercut - Simple design flaw - They built the engine too strong for the gearbox ( 2nd gear ). Not much could be done. Drop the engine replace the gear with an undercut one.

 

Re: ZZR1100 had this as well... Not much to do

Thanks for the input Graham.
At least Kawasaki changed their design.....
Yamaha have stuck with this tranny and have no intention of changing from what their warranty manager was saying. Pardon my ignorance, but what is an undercut gear?
The ZZR problem seemed to kick in a fair bit later than the R6, so I am assuming that it was not covered by warranty either.
At least Kawasaki had the balls to admit a design issue (because they changed the design), unlike Yamaha who are too stubburn to admit the truth, instead insisting that we are all incompetent riders.
ARRGGHH - I get angry just thinking about it!!!

 

Re: sorry

In response to Ara Tidwell's previous post, here are the gear ratios for some bikes in the same class as the R6:

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> 2001 GSXR 600:<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

1st 2.785 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
2nd 2.000
3rd 1.600
4th 1.363
5th 1.208 * * * * * * * *
6th 1.086 * * * * * * * * * * * *

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> 2001 CBR F4i:<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

1st 2.833
2nd 2.062
3rd 1.647
4th 1.421
5th 1.272
6th 1.173

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> 2001 YZF R6:<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

1st 2.846
2nd 1.947
3rd 1.556
4th 1.333
5th 1.190
6th 1.083

Ara is right that the R6 has the largest gap between 1st and 2nd gears. However, I don't see what the 15,500 RPM rev-limit has to do with it, as all the other gears are spaced within the same range as the Honda and the Suzuki. If the higher rev-limit of the R6 was the reason for the larger gap between 1st and 2nd, the same would hold true for the rest of the gears. -Meaning all the other gears (2nd through 6th) would have a larger gap as well, which they don't.

The relatively large gap between 1st and 2nd gears may be partailly responsible for the transmission failures, but that doesn't automaticly make the rider responsible for the failure because he doesn't know how to shift a "wide ratio" transmission properly. If there were really such a difference between the riding technique of an R6 vs. and F4i or Gixxer600, I think it would be widespread information.

 

Same problems here...

I have a 2000 with roughly 11,000 miles on her and am also losing 2nd gear.... I have taken very good care of this bike and have never really beaten the piss out of her... I ride it like a sportbike should be ridden.... I hate to say it, I love the bike but this problem has definitely influenced what I will purchase next... It wont be a Yamaha. I have had two CBR's in my family with high milage and I have never experienced any problems like this before. I was quoted a repair cost of $2,000.00 - which is money I don not have - I am so disgusted right now - The damn bike is in the garage coverd up - I still have not decided what to do with it.
My bitch is done...
Long Time Member - Eric

 

Re: Same problems here...

Alright, no more 2nd gear clutching wheelies for me! My 6 just passed 11K Miles and still strong, but this topic scares the piss out of me, more then a head shake. From now on it just smoooth ridding.