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gilles adjusters

TZRaceR6 said:
Ordered the adjusters from England about 2 weeks ago and they came in yesterday. These things are absolutely awesome and talk about saving time when changing the rear tire.

Took about 20 minutes to install both of them, (had to completely remove the screw that goes into the swingarm and has the 2 bolts for adjustment, and of course the axel, bolt and adjustment plates that normally just fall to the ground once the axel is out.) These things are just one complete unit and only require one allen head wrench to make any adjustments and thanks to have numbers on the side, you can ensure that the axel and tire are dead straight every time.

I took my tire off and put it back on again, leaving the brake caliper assembly in place, just took a flat head screw drive and widened the 2 pads to allow the brake disc to slide in more easily, and I was able to completely remove and put the tire back on in roughly 2 minutes, by myself.

how did you keep rear caliper in place?
 

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2008 Triumph 675
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
^^^ Just like was stated above, I hold the rear caliper in that little slot on the inside of the swingarm until the rear tire is somewhat in place, then I just line up the holes for the axel to fit through.

The factory boys asked me the same question as to whether the Gilles adjusters had some way of holding the brake caliper in place. It is a good idea to have some sort of adjuster that has some what to connect to the rear caliper to keep it from falling.

As for surviving a crash: It'd be really tough to damage these without doing extensive damage to the swingarm and tires in the process, and if that were the case, the adjusters would be the least of your worries.
 

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CWN Racing said:
I was hoping you'd get yours so I can ask you a few questions before I order mine. As far as removing the wheel, do you need to add slack to the chain like with the stock adjusters, basically is it easier to mount a rear wheel with this set up, for a quicker change I guess you can say. I have to admit they are fuckin sweet.
You loosen the chain to change the tire? In 2 years of racing with MANY sprocket combos I've never had to loosen the chain. Remove the axle bolt, hold the tire UP and FORWARD and just slip the chain off the sprocket.

Why do you do find yourself needing to loosen the chain?

As for the Giles: those look sweet and I would buy them j8ust for the ability to change tires without removing the brake caliper.

But my question is: you too talk about loosening the chain to remove the tire. Is that a fact of the Giles? Cause no matter how easy it makes doing that it would still seem like an additional step that wasn't needed.

Or were you used to doing that already and just keep doing it? CAuse I'm telling ya I have never had to loosen my chain to remove the rear tire.

EDIT: Ok so I see now, after finishing reading, that you realized you don't need to loosen the chain. But as for the rear caliper. I guess I'm not sure what you are gaining. As it is I put the wheel and sprocket in place with the chain and the axle pushed mostly the way through but not stickoug out past the rotor.

Then, just holding the wheel straight (the weight is held by the axle) I position the rear caliper sliding it over the rotor and roughly aligning it with the axle. Then I push the axle all the way through. That is it.

From the way you describe it you are putting caliper in place and sliding the wheel up into it? How has the Giles helped/changed/etc anything? If you still have to juggle the wheel and caliper I don't get it? and if you are doing what I said 2 sentances ago that sounds way harder than what I'm doing [shrug].

I guess what I am wondering is: what did you do before and how did that change with the giles?
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Jumper,
The steps are still the same as before with having to juggle the caliper, but the benefit of the Gilles is, they remain where they are after you push the axel out, instead of having those two metal pieces fall off. The Gilles also ensure that the rear tire is in fact straight, and lastly it allows for ease of chain adjustment, by just using an allen wrench.
It just makes life a little easier when changing a tire or adjusting the chain as it slackens from use.
 

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Now don't get me wrong, those things look sweet; I'm not trying to hate, just udnerstand.

But other than easier chain adjustment I'm not sure what they are buying me.

Ok so I don't have to mess with those square blocks. Well I already safety wired one of them onto the axle so it comes out as a piece; one down. The other just isn't a big deal, but I can appreciate little improvements.

As for wheel being straight after changing it: it is always still straight after changing it out. there is no reason for it not to be. Since the method of adjustment has no bearing on that (other than ease of doing it) I don't see that it matters. Of course that assumes you don't mess with the adjusters to remove the wheel and we've already discussed that.

As for adjusting when you change sprockets I agree this is WAY easier but I'm still not going to trust marks on anything until I have verified them by testing wheel alignment at several different places along the adjustment range and remarked it to be accurate. But you can do that without the giles by just marking the swingarm; so I don't see how the giles helps that.

so other than making it really easy to adjust the slack and eliminating messing with the blocks ... it just seems like a lot of money [shrug].

But there has to be something I'm missing so please help me justify spending the money on these things cause they are sweet looking and I would love to have them hehehe but I have to see the benefit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Jumper,
You save .5 grams of weight with the new adjusters. Now go buy them, damn you! :p
A lot of people don't safety wire the adjuster blocks, so that's one help. You're just too forward thinking. :lol You could mark the swingarm to give you correct placement of the rear tire, but the Gilles come pre-marked, so why fuck-up your swingarm? Chain adjustment is way easier, and as stated it allows for very easy sprocket changes, which was probably the main reason the Yamaha Factory mechanics were so interested in them. And lastly, there is the cool factor. No one else in my racing clubs have them yet, and having the Yamaha blue color on a black swingarm gets noticed.
Again, it was the first thing the Yammie factory guys saw and asked me about. Then they noticed the aluminum frame sliders, then the Factory Pro case covers, and the Traxxion Dynamics suspension adjusters on top of the forks... bla bla. Of course Chuck Graves had to comment on my dented exhaust pipe, which after all the cool stuff on my bike made me feel like shit. Hence a new Ti-Force pipe is now in the mail. :smilecool
 

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0.5 grams: Now THAT is what I'm talking about.

Safety wiring the block to the axle: Trick I got from a gixxer guy

The marks on the Giles: I don't trust them to be any more accurate than the swingarm so I would still have to verify them just like I did with he swing arm marks

Makes changing the sprocket easier: How does it do that again?

Chuck Graves commenting on your exhaust: PRICELESS. Of course I would have told him to give me another one or keep his mouth shut :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Makes changing the sprocket easier: How does it do that again?
Since all you need is an allen key to tighten or loosen the chain, by half a turn left or right, you save time and effort. That's what I was referring to.

And I probably should have told Chuck to give me one of his exhausts if he didn't like mine, but when you're surrounded by Damon Buckmaster, Chuck Graves and their mechanics, you're kinda in awe. Well, at least I was.
 

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ahh ok I gotcha. Sounds like enough for me to at least try and get a good price on them, maybe a group buy :) Since my race season in 2005 is likely to be VERy small and hit or miss I'm likely to spend only the barest minimum on the bike to keep it up and instead save money for next season after I graduate from my masters program. That means these might be perfect christmas gift requests too :)
Of course I might not be racing the 02 in 05 but instead sell it / convert it to street and try to get my hand on an 03/04. then again I might go 2-stroke and play around with either a 250 or 125. See how I fair in the USGPRU, Stew has been bugging me for a while to do it :)

And yeah I would be in awe too. but I never miss a chance to give someone crap who is trying to give me crap :)

Hell I might have told the Yamaha team that I was the exclusive US distributor of those things and given them my phone number "if you would like to place an order!" heheh

Oh yeah how do you like the rear stand set-up compared to having spools screwed into the swing arm. Is it really any different? I woudl still want to have some swing arm sliders on there myself [shrug]
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Jumper,
I kept the swingarm spools. Felt that those add on's would have most likely gotten screwed up in a crash, so went without them.
It's funny that you bring up the USGP series, since that's what I'll be running this year on the West Coast. I ended up buying a 98 TZ250 from Rising Sun Cycles, listed as one of their best and spent nearly 8 grand to get it. Come to find out, it's in need of some serious repairs. To bad there's no lemon law on these bikes cause I'd drop kick the fuckers for selling me the bike the way it is without giving me warning of all the problems! Anyway, and lucky for me, there is an awesome 125/250 specialist just 4 hours south of me, so I'm taking the bike down there for a complete engine rebuild. He's gonna put a new crank shaft in, tons of new internals, new clutch and pack, dyno it, custom jet it, and break in the new engine for me for another 3 grand, and then deliver it to me on Saturday of my next race weekend! So for 11 grand I'll have what is basically a new 250.
If you do get a 250, don't buy from Rising Sun Cycles in Connecticut. They'll screw you! If you do race in the USGP we could meet up at the finale in Texas next year.
 

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After helping a co-worker who ran 250 in AMA in 2003 and pitting with his brother who ran uspru I have some advice:

1) do all that work yourself. Cause you will be doing it all again pretty soon, as in after your 2nd or thrid race. Ok not the crank but you will be doing that after the season is over. You'll be installing new rings and pistons several times too. SAme for the clutch, especially since you are just learning how to launch it.

1a) even if you do pay the guy to do all that work you better have some spares on you cause shit WILL happen at the track and if you are preppared you could blow your motor saturday morning and still catch a few practice sessions at the end and race on sunday. But that means knowing how to put in new pistons and rings.

2) Jetting - unless you plan on running a very fat jetting to keep everything safe (and that doesn't buy you THAT much) there is no such thing as a "custom jet" because when you go to a new track, and the temp changes 10 degrees, or the baropressure changes just a bit you'll want to change the jetting to get your power back, or conversely to keep from blowing the motor. And there IS such a thing as running TOO rich, especially with a 250.

3) break-in - you list it as an item worth mentioning. It amounts to 3 heat cycles (iirc) of the engine before beating the crap out of it. I've had to listen to enough fuckers heat cycling their engines at 7am to know it all too well :) Point is, it isn't something that this guy should be "selling you" as this great service he is providing.

4) the crank: yeah if you bought the bike and they didn't tell you it atleast needed a crank that was fucked. But everything else ... well .. that is part of owning a 250. Hell I wouldn't buy 250 and put it on the track without first doing a full tear-down; no matter what condition they told me it was in cause tear downs are just a way of life with 250's.

Anyway the mani point of why I started writing this was I got the impression that you might not know what you are getting into with the bike as evidenced by being surprised that the bike needed work and more important, that you are about to pay someone to do it. Now if that $3k comes with a full education of how to do the work yourself than it is money WELL spent.

Try to make friends with some of the other 2-strokers in your area and ask for help. They are a great bunch who are always willing to help each other out.

Good luck and yeah hopefull we'll see eachother at nationals in 2006; I'll probably go to watch even if I am not on a 2-stroke cause I coulds till race the R6 with the hosting org and I know a few of the guys and would love to see them again.

PS the guy who was my pit-buddy was the West Coast Champ, Scott McNew. Not sure if he'll be racing next year since he got good and well fucked up during the Nationals when he had a brake failure at 120+ .. well technicaly the bike he was BORROWING had a brake failure. His bike had (irrc) blown without enough time to fix it.
 

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Looks pretty cool, Do you have more pics of the kit on your bike?
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
R6AJ,
I've been meaning to take some and will do that tonight.

Alex,
No there will be no education with the rebuild. The guy is 300 miles south of me, and is building the engine to run specifically at Willow Springs with summer temps, since March starts the summer time here. He also comes to every Willow Springs event, so he'll be at every race there, but since I'm only running 3 of the 4 main races in USGP I'm hoping not to run into any issues in those 3 races, but I will be bringing my Aprilia RS250 to run as a backup, even if it is considerably less powerful, at least I'll be able to race, just in case.
And my point about spending another 3 grand, had I known about the bike, well instead of spending 11 grand on a 98 that was well used, I could have gotten a new 04 for just 1,500 dollars more, which to me would have been worth it. So had I known about all those issues ahead of time from Rising Cycles, I would have never bought the thing and instead just bought a new one. That's where I'm coming from. Those assholes blantantly lied about the bike so they could get rid of it, cause I guess it had been sitting in their lot for quite a while. Lack of scruples on their part. The fuckers! I've e-mailed them too, since I found out all this shit was wrong with it and they refuse to answer my e-mails. So I'll tell everyone I know how shady they are.
 

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ahh I take it all back .. you have the mother of all spares .. a BACKUP BIKE hehehe.

And yeah you are right, with only 3 planned races you should have no problems. Just doing a little jetting as the weather warms up and you'll be good.

And yeah I totally agree that the situation sucks cause wow is there a difference between a 98 and an 04 .. hell even a 01 iirc is a big difference and it wouldn't have cost that much more to get one of those used; if you could find one at least.

Anyway good luck next year. You'll have a blast. I had a blast just hanging out with the GP guys; though they seemed to be a bit offended that I had a [choke] FOUR STROKE [/choke] amounst their pits hehehe. At least a few of them were polite as they passed me, mid-apex, giving me a nice wave [fuckers] hehehe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
^^^ :lol I know what you mean about getting passed mid-apex by those little fuckers. When I was at Jennings I had a 125 blow by me mid-corner and kept going through the turns on the back section like I was standing still!

But when I took my Aprilia up to Thunderhill track and took her out to stretch her legs I found it way down on power in the straights, but once I got into the turns... holy crap! What a wonderful sensation. My TZR250 was fun, but the suspension is nothing compared to that on the Aprilia. I was passing like crazy in the turns only to get repassed on the straights, but it still felt really awesome!
 

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Are you taking your bike to Kevin Murray?

You would do yourself a favor by taking your bike apart and putting it back together once or twice before you take it to him. That way when your clutch gives out at 1st call for your 1st practice, you can have it back in by 2nd practice.

Things always seemed to go wrong like that on my old 250, but my girlfriends 125 has been as reliable as any racebike out there.

Eddie
 

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An excellent point and similar to what I was still eluding too. though the spare bike is certainly a huge help there.

And yeah Eddie, from what I saw hanging out with a lot of the 2-strokers last season it would seem an accurate statement that a 125 is less than half the maintenance of a 250 :)
 

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I'm surprised to hear of your experience with RS Cycles. From what I can gather they're a pretty big deal on the East coast 2 stroke scene, and they've seemed nice when I've talked to them. One would think they would know what bad word-of-mouth would do to their business.
 
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