damn it! not this again. just buy the pc3 before you buy anything else. youll feel a "slight" change, not as much so if you had the graves or factory pro map installed (not custom tune) on a pc3. as far as tuning goes w or wo a pc3 id say from experience and technical advice from dealers, 50% of its all in our heads. just like your paranoia w this v-stack vs pc3 debate.epiphone3 said:I was looking at getting a set of velocity stacks (superflare from Factory Pro) and I was curious if anyone saw any disadvantages out of these... i.e. flat spots, roughness, worse on/off throttle abruptness, etc.
By the way, I am NOT planning on tuning with a PCIII afterward. I have my reasons as some people on this board know
any ill effects from Velocity Stacks?
I was looking at getting a set of velocity stacks (superflare from Factory Pro) and I was curious if anyone saw any disadvantages out of these... i.e. flat spots, roughness, worse on/off throttle abruptness, etc.
By the way, I am NOT planning on tuning with a PCIII afterward. I have my reasons as some people on this board know
By the way, I am NOT planning on tuning with a PCIII afterward. I have my reasons as some people on this board know
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sorry man... just trying to see if anyone jumps at this and tells me something I should know. Don't mean to be annoying.
I am just curious if people have noticed anything that they did not like after installing the stacks
I am just curious if people have noticed anything that they did not like after installing the stacks
as far as I can tell... there has been no ill effects with the V-stacks. Just get a PCIII and you will be set (you don't need 1 with V-stacks, but I'm sure you will be doing further mods so why not get it now). Why don't you just get a BMC air filter as well since you will be opening up your air box anyways.
Hate to open a can of worms... do you need to run a PCIII to have your engine be happy and efficient with a BMC air filter?Spinner13 said:as far as I can tell... there has been no ill effects with the V-stacks. Just get a PCIII and you will be set (you don't need 1 with V-stacks, but I'm sure you will be doing further mods so why not get it now). Why don't you just get a BMC air filter as well since you will be opening up your air box anyways.
I assume that you would recommend the race model?
im sure you read my thread and found the answer in stone! your engine will be perform just fine. all youre doing by installing ANY filter is modifying the fuel air ratio which will only make it more efficient. more airflow= better compression, hence more hp. doesnt that make sense? why would you need a map just for that? do you change your cars ecu just cuz you modded it in anyway?! just look at most of these old school big block engines out there w direct intakes. people are looking way to deep into custom maps and pc3's its taking the common sense away from them.epiphone3 said:Hate to open a can of worms... do you need to run a PCIII to have your engine be happy and efficient with a BMC air filter?
I assume that you would recommend the race model?
so you'd recommend the BMC race over the BMC standard?hesaves0211 said:im sure you read my thread and found the answer in stone! your engine will be perform just fine. all youre doing by installing ANY filter is modifying the fuel air ratio which will only make it more efficient. more airflow= better compression, hence more hp. doesnt that make sense? why would you need a map just for that? do you change your cars ecu just cuz you modded it in anyway?! just look at most of these old school big block engines out there w direct intakes. people are looking way to deep into custom maps and pc3's its taking the common sense away from them.
hesaves0211 said:im sure you read my thread and found the answer in stone! your engine will be perform just fine. all youre doing by installing ANY filter is modifying the fuel air ratio which will only make it more efficient. more airflow= better compression, hence more hp. doesnt that make sense? why would you need a map just for that? do you change your cars ecu just cuz you modded it in anyway?! just look at most of these old school big block engines out there w direct intakes. people are looking way to deep into custom maps and pc3's its taking the common sense away from them.
no, youre not modifying the air fuel ratio, you are allowing more air to flow into the engine. by which the map sensor or "air pressure sensor" in yamaha terms, sends a signal to the computer telling it how much air is flowing into the engine, the computer also interprets rpm, speed and coolant temp, the computer then adjusts as needed to maintain a certain air fuel ratio for that engine load. more airflow does not equal better compression, it equals a higher volumetric efficiency. which is measured in a percentage of theoretical ammount of air able to be packed into a cylinder vs. actual ammount of air that is being injested into the cylinder. 100 percent VE is saying that the entire cylinder is filled. it is possible to have over 100 percent VE even on naturally aspirated vehicles. just some food for thought.
Going over 100% generally involves tuning the intake runner to specific frequencies and/or using ram air.deafseeingeyedog said:no, youre not modifying the air fuel ratio, you are allowing more air to flow into the engine. by which the map sensor or "air pressure sensor" in yamaha terms, sends a signal to the computer telling it how much air is flowing into the engine, the computer also interprets rpm, speed and coolant temp, the computer then adjusts as needed to maintain a certain air fuel ratio for that engine load. more airflow does not equal better compression, it equals a higher volumetric efficiency. which is measured in a percentage of theoretical ammount of air able to be packed into a cylinder vs. actual ammount of air that is being injested into the cylinder. 100 percent VE is saying that the entire cylinder is filled. it is possible to have over 100 percent VE even on naturally aspirated vehicles. just some food for thought.
Prostock cars routinely are over 100% for a narrowish rev window. Such brilliant tuning...
More airflow increases cylinder pressure, which is the same effect of higher compression (a compression meter will agree) but more airflow means more a/f mix can be burned = more power.
heck yea bmc race all the way. you can find plenty of threads on it already just search "bmc race filter" on the top heading. as for what the guys above me are sayin, im pretty sure i meant something along those lines haha they blew me out of the water with their technical nomenclature.epiphone3 said:so you'd recommend the BMC race over the BMC standard?
hesaves0211 said:heck yea bmc race all the way. you can find plenty of threads on it already just search "bmc race filter" on the top heading. as for what the guys above me are sayin, im pretty sure i meant something along those lines haha they blew me out of the water with their technical nomenclature.
cool. I may get that BMC race filter too. I got sucked in to what a lot of people say which is "your changing the air fuel ratio, so if you get a BMC with no different fuel mapping, you will actually lose power."
I guess it is an advantage no matter what... PCIII with a good map will just increase the advantages the filter would give you?
The stock ecu will only adjust so much before the programming that is inside the thing says, hey i cant do anymore you need to fix this... Anytime you change something that affects the air or fuel of an engine, it will affect the air/fuel ratio unless you get a new map for what was just done.hesaves0211 said:im sure you read my thread and found the answer in stone! your engine will be perform just fine. all youre doing by installing ANY filter is modifying the fuel air ratio which will only make it more efficient. more airflow= better compression, hence more hp. doesnt that make sense? why would you need a map just for that? do you change your cars ecu just cuz you modded it in anyway?! just look at most of these old school big block engines out there w direct intakes. people are looking way to deep into custom maps and pc3's its taking the common sense away from them.
Just some more food for thought, i dont think graves or any other race team would spend the money on expensive management systems and tuning if the bike "automatically" adjusted everytime you added a new filter or exhaust...
oh guys dont get me wrong "plug in" maps arnt bad at all but just cuz theres a map for that component doesnt mean itll always suit your bike (thats a fact). however a proper map will slightly benefit the engine. but custom mapping isnt worth stressing out over like most street riders do. most of the time the differances are so minuet.epiphone3 said:cool. I may get that BMC race filter too. I got sucked in to what a lot of people say which is "your changing the air fuel ratio, so if you get a BMC with no different fuel mapping, you will actually lose power."
I guess it is an advantage no matter what... PCIII with a good map will just increase the advantages the filter would give you?
fjman said:Going over 100% generally involves tuning the intake runner to specific frequencies and/or using ram air.
Prostock cars routinely are over 100% for a narrowish rev window. Such brilliant tuning...
More airflow increases cylinder pressure, which is the same effect of higher compression (a compression meter will agree) but more airflow means more a/f mix can be burned = more power.
not just prostock cars go over 100% VE, my teacher back in technical school was a bracket racer and had been doing it for 30 plus years, he built his own engines which were chrysler big blocks and had dyno figures proving that he was upwards of 110% VE
at high rpms, the engine isnt making the actual 12.something to 1 compression ratio its calculated for, the piston and valvetrain is moving too fast for the cylinder to have enough time to fill completely, so its more like youre getting cloers to the actual compression ratio youre rated for.
and i think you have the right idea, but you just need to reorganize youre ideas better. more airflow = more fuel can be added to the incoming air when burned = more power
well put!deafseeingeyedog said:not just prostock cars go over 100% VE, my teacher back in technical school was a bracket racer and had been doing it for 30 plus years, he built his own engines which were chrysler big blocks and had dyno figures proving that he was upwards of 110% VE
at high rpms, the engine is making the actual 12.something to 1 compression ratio its calculated for, the piston and valvetrain is moving too fast for the cylinder to have enough time to fill completely, so its more like youre getting cloers to the actual compression ratio youre rated for.
and i think you have the right idea, but you just need to reorganize youre ideas better. more airflow = more fuel can be added to the incoming air when burned = more power
deafseeingeyedog said:not just prostock cars go over 100% VE, my teacher back in technical school was a bracket racer and had been doing it for 30 plus years, he built his own engines which were chrysler big blocks and had dyno figures proving that he was upwards of 110% VE
at high rpms, the engine isnt making the actual 12.something to 1 compression ratio its calculated for, the piston and valvetrain is moving too fast for the cylinder to have enough time to fill completely, so its more like youre getting cloers to the actual compression ratio youre rated for.
and i think you have the right idea, but you just need to reorganize youre ideas better. more airflow = more fuel can be added to the incoming air when burned = more power
so no danger of running a BMC race filter, superflare v-stacks, +4 ignition advance with no power commander then?
cool... as long as you wouldn't lose low-end or midrange by doing this.
id say those mods would be close to the limit as far as the adaptation range of the dme. anything more than that and i would get some sort of engine management, ie slip on exhaust or even better, a full system. just keep in mind you arent getting as much out of it as you could without some engine management
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